What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?

[Roger]

I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and XSL-FO
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY and
Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT templates.

XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg editor,
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely use
it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.

With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My problem
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the Altova
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's not.

Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.

Roger

[Wouter de Vaal]

We've researched the issue as well and up to know we didn't find
any editor that has reverse engineer capabilities. It's all one
way, you can get the XSL-FO out of it, but once you changed that,
it can't be read back into the editor.

So I guess we just have to be patient and wait for someone to create
this tool (which will probably have a nice price-tag).

Oh and concerning XMLSpy, you might want to conside oXygen, XMLSpy
is good, but if you just want a tool for editting, xsl processing
and debugging, oXygen is way cheaper (and it's Java!).

Wouter

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:57 PM
Subject: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT
and XSL-FO documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version
of Altova XMLSPY and Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create
the xsd, and sample xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant
for the FO and XSLT templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a
wysiwyg editor, which works quite okay, but not always like I
want it. Now I merely use it to create a quick-start
template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice.
My problem is that I cannot get the new code back into
Stylevision. At the Altova website they try to present this
as a feature, but of course it's not.
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that
allows you to edit or import the code? I don't expect
Dreamweaver quality. Other good tools are also welcome.
XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but I've seen a lot of
tools out there, so I'm wondering what your experiences are,
what tips you have.
Roger
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Clay Leeds]

The only XSL-FO editors I'm aware of are listed on the FOP Resources
page[1]. This discussion recently came up on this list, so if you check
the archives, you might find something which leads to something.

Please report back what works best for you, so the FOP community can
benefit from your experience.

Web Maestro Clay

[1]
http://xml.apache.org/fop/resources.html#products-editors

Post by Roger
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and XSL-FO
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY
and Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT
templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg editor,
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely
use it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My problem
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the Altova
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's not.
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.
Roger
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[[e-mail]]

Post by Roger
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and XSL-FO
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY and
Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg editor,
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely use
it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My problem
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the Altova
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's not.
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.

i am new to xsl & co. for our current project we need to create
pdf-documents out of (xml-)data. after using different approaches to get
the pdf document i came to fop and xsl-fo. i also have downloaded
stylevision, but the code generated was very ugly. so after a few tries
i have created the xsl-template just with my default editor (vim).
worked great...

markus

[Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen]

Post by Roger
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.

I have given up on Altova too.

Currently I use Emacs with nxml-mode and the RenderX RELAX files for XSL-FO.

This does not give wysiwyg, but it helps a lot getting the FO-file
right, and then run a FO-previewer like FOP from a shell occasionaly to
see what you are doing. The feeling of this is a lot like writing in
LaTeX (or WordPerfect for oldtimers:)

[j***@wipro.com]

Xmlspy is good

-----Original Message-----
From: Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen [mailto:***@c.dk]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 4:49 PM
To: fop-***@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?

Post by Roger
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.

I have given up on Altova too.

Currently I use Emacs with nxml-mode and the RenderX RELAX files for XSL-FO.

This does not give wysiwyg, but it helps a lot getting the FO-file
right, and then run a FO-previewer like FOP from a shell occasionaly to
see what you are doing. The feeling of this is a lot like writing in
LaTeX (or WordPerfect for oldtimers:)

[Rob Stote]

Hello all:

I have tried the following editors:

1) Altova:
I found this editor the least user friendly of the bunch. It does not offer
a true WYSIWYG environment. Once you get your head around how to actually
works, you can develop stylesheet with it. Be prepared to work at it though.
I was a little concerned with the use of the "for-each" in the stylesheet it
produced. (please note: I have yet to try Altova latest release,
stylevision. My comments are in reference to the stylesheet editor that came
bundled with XMLSpy 2003 Enterprise Edition). I could create standards
compliant XSL stylesheet and deploy them with out any issues. The stylesheet
you produce does not contain any proprietary information/tags.

2)Inventive Designers Scriptura:
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent. Quite
intuitive and easy to use. Currently (ver 3.0) Creates proprietary
stylesheets that can only really be used in their formatting objects
processor. The issue is they offer all kinds of bells and whistles within
the editing which can prove to be extremely handy. The issues is you can not
really use the designed stylesheet with FOP. They are about 2 versions
behind on the xalan they use, consequently the name space
references...especially when it comes to java get royally screwed up when
you try and use the stylesheet in FOP. The motto here is you have to
design...test... see what breaks, redesign...test...see what breaks,
redesign...test...see what breaks... Then go in and manually change the name
space declarations. Get the point.

3)Antenna House XSLTemplate Designer
Of the XSLFormatter fame, Antenna house has decided to offer it's clients a
designer. One problem.... The "stylesheet" produced will only work with AH's
XSLFormatter... You can not export the stylesheet to be used with other
formatters. Try as I might, my conversation proved fruitless with them, I
tried to point out that it might be important to developers to have the
option to deploy the stylesheet on a machine running a formatter other than
XSLFormatter... No dice.... So for the purposes of this forum.. They are
out.

4)XSLFast
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent (sound
familiar). XSLFast has fixed some of the annoyances they had in their
earlier versions... They are the only editor on the market, as far as I can
tell, that does not have an agenda of promoting a particular formatting
engine (Scriptura, or antenna house). I liked using it. It is written in
swing, so it can be a little sluggish in responding at times. I was able to
develop a stylesheet and deploy it to my application using FOP with out any
compatibility issues. It has some nice touches, such as offering a call out
to an external stylesheet. The table tool is still a little counter
intuitive, but over all a step forward for them.

5)by hand baby.....
The reality is I use oXygen 4.0, my Ken Holman books, Zvon, and a whole lot
of blood and sweat. I try an approach the stylesheet development the same
way I approach my java programming. Creating reusable objects ( in this case
templates) Importing and reusing where I can.

My two cents:

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Leeds [mailto:***@medata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:16 AM
To: fop-***@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?

The only XSL-FO editors I'm aware of are listed on the FOP Resources
page[1]. This discussion recently came up on this list, so if you check the
archives, you might find something which leads to something.

Please report back what works best for you, so the FOP community can benefit
from your experience.

Web Maestro Clay

[1]
http://xml.apache.org/fop/resources.html#products-editors

Post by Roger
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and XSL-FO
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY
and Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT
templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg editor,
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely
use it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My problem
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the Altova
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's not.
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows you
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.
Roger
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-user-***@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: fop-user-***@xml.apache.org

[Clay Leeds]

Thank you for this (IMHO) objective and good review of the style sheet
designers currently available. I think this will be a good reference
for people to see. If there are no objections (and time permitting!), I
may even consider posting this and other reviews on the FOP web site
(after fixing a couple of minor typos) in the appropriate Resources
section--giving full credit to its author(s), of course!

Web Maestro Clay

Post by Rob Stote
I found this editor the least user friendly of the bunch. It does not
offer a true WYSIWYG environment. Once you get your head around how to
actually works, you can develop stylesheet with it. Be prepared to
work at it though. I was a little concerned with the use of the
"for-each" in the stylesheet it produced. (please note: I have yet to
try Altova latest release, stylevision. My comments are in reference
to the stylesheet editor that came bundled with XMLSpy 2003 Enterprise
Edition). I could create standards compliant XSL stylesheet and deploy
them with out any issues. The stylesheet you produce does not contain
any proprietary information/tags.
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent. Quite
intuitive and easy to use. Currently (ver 3.0) Creates proprietary
stylesheets that can only really be used in their formatting objects
processor. The issue is they offer all kinds of bells and whistles
within the editing which can prove to be extremely handy. The issues
is you can not really use the designed stylesheet with FOP. They are
about 2 versions behind on the xalan they use, consequently the name
space references...especially when it comes to java get royally
screwed up when you try and use the stylesheet in FOP. The motto here
is you have to design...test... see what breaks, redesign...test...see
what breaks, redesign...test...see what breaks... Then go in and
manually change the name space declarations. Get the point.
3)Antenna House XSLTemplate Designer
Of the XSLFormatter fame, Antenna house has decided to offer it's
clients a designer. One problem.... The "stylesheet" produced will
only work with AH's XSLFormatter... You can not export the stylesheet
to be used with other formatters. Try as I might, my conversation
proved fruitless with them, I tried to point out that it might be
important to developers to have the option to deploy the stylesheet on
a machine running a formatter other than XSLFormatter... No dice....
So for the purposes of this forum.. They are out.
4)XSLFast
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent (sound
familiar). XSLFast has fixed some of the annoyances they had in their
earlier versions... They are the only editor on the market, as far as
I can tell, that does not have an agenda of promoting a particular
formatting engine (Scriptura, or antenna house). I liked using it. It
is written in swing, so it can be a little sluggish in responding at
times. I was able to develop a stylesheet and deploy it to my
application using FOP with out any compatibility issues. It has some
nice touches, such as offering a call out to an external stylesheet.
The table tool is still a little counter intuitive, but over all a
step forward for them.
5)by hand baby.....
The reality is I use oXygen 4.0, my Ken Holman books, Zvon, and a
whole lot of blood and sweat. I try an approach the stylesheet
development the same way I approach my java programming. Creating
reusable objects ( in this case templates) Importing and reusing where
I can.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?
The only XSL-FO editors I'm aware of are listed on the FOP Resources
page[1]. This discussion recently came up on this list, so if you
check the archives, you might find something which leads to something.
Please report back what works best for you, so the FOP community can
benefit from your experience.
Web Maestro Clay
[1]
http://xml.apache.org/fop/resources.html#products-editors

Post by Roger
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and

XSL-FO

Post by Roger
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY
and Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT
templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg

editor,

Post by Roger
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely
use it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My

problem

Post by Roger
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the

Altova

Post by Roger
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's

not.

Post by Roger
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows

you

Post by Roger
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality. Other
good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an XSD, but
I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what your
experiences are, what tips you have.
Roger
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Rob Stote]

After some further offline discussion with Clay, I have decided to expand on
my reviews. I whipped off my previous email very quickly, and in hind sight
I realized, although useful, the reviews were lacking some of the important
information people may need. My forth coming reviews will provide as much
detail as you can all stomach ;-) O/S support, JDK support, price, main
features, main pitfalls etc.....

Look for my review(s) in the next couple of days.

Cheers,

Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Leeds [mailto:***@medata.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:24 AM
To: fop-***@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?

Thank you for this (IMHO) objective and good review of the style sheet
designers currently available. I think this will be a good reference for
people to see. If there are no objections (and time permitting!), I may even
consider posting this and other reviews on the FOP web site (after fixing a
couple of minor typos) in the appropriate Resources section--giving full
credit to its author(s), of course!

Web Maestro Clay

Post by Rob Stote
I found this editor the least user friendly of the bunch. It does not
offer a true WYSIWYG environment. Once you get your head around how to
actually works, you can develop stylesheet with it. Be prepared to
work at it though. I was a little concerned with the use of the
"for-each" in the stylesheet it produced. (please note: I have yet to
try Altova latest release, stylevision. My comments are in reference
to the stylesheet editor that came bundled with XMLSpy 2003 Enterprise
Edition). I could create standards compliant XSL stylesheet and deploy
them with out any issues. The stylesheet you produce does not contain
any proprietary information/tags.
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent. Quite
intuitive and easy to use. Currently (ver 3.0) Creates proprietary
stylesheets that can only really be used in their formatting objects
processor. The issue is they offer all kinds of bells and whistles
within the editing which can prove to be extremely handy. The issues
is you can not really use the designed stylesheet with FOP. They are
about 2 versions behind on the xalan they use, consequently the name
space references...especially when it comes to java get royally
screwed up when you try and use the stylesheet in FOP. The motto here
is you have to design...test... see what breaks, redesign...test...see
what breaks, redesign...test...see what breaks... Then go in and
manually change the name space declarations. Get the point.
3)Antenna House XSLTemplate Designer
Of the XSLFormatter fame, Antenna house has decided to offer it's
clients a designer. One problem.... The "stylesheet" produced will
only work with AH's XSLFormatter... You can not export the stylesheet
to be used with other formatters. Try as I might, my conversation
proved fruitless with them, I tried to point out that it might be
important to developers to have the option to deploy the stylesheet on
a machine running a formatter other than XSLFormatter... No dice....
So for the purposes of this forum.. They are out.
4)XSLFast
Nice WYSIWYG editor, written in java, so platform independent (sound
familiar). XSLFast has fixed some of the annoyances they had in their
earlier versions... They are the only editor on the market, as far as
I can tell, that does not have an agenda of promoting a particular
formatting engine (Scriptura, or antenna house). I liked using it. It
is written in swing, so it can be a little sluggish in responding at
times. I was able to develop a stylesheet and deploy it to my
application using FOP with out any compatibility issues. It has some
nice touches, such as offering a call out to an external stylesheet.
The table tool is still a little counter intuitive, but over all a
step forward for them.
5)by hand baby.....
The reality is I use oXygen 4.0, my Ken Holman books, Zvon, and a
whole lot of blood and sweat. I try an approach the stylesheet
development the same way I approach my java programming. Creating
reusable objects ( in this case templates) Importing and reusing where
I can.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: What XSLT and XSL-FO editor do you use?
The only XSL-FO editors I'm aware of are listed on the FOP Resources
page[1]. This discussion recently came up on this list, so if you
check the archives, you might find something which leads to something.
Please report back what works best for you, so the FOP community can
benefit from your experience.
Web Maestro Clay
[1]
http://xml.apache.org/fop/resources.html#products-editors

Post by Roger
I'm wondering what editors you use to create your XSD, XSLT and

XSL-FO

Post by Roger
documents. At the moment I'm using a trial version of Altova XMLSPY
and Stylevision. XMLSpy is meant to create the xsd, and sample
xml-data-documents. Stylevision is meant for the FO and XSLT
templates.
XMLSpy is okay as far as I can see, but Stylevision has one big
drawback: you can't edit the code in it. It only has a wysiwyg

editor,

Post by Roger
which works quite okay, but not always like I want it. Now I merely
use it to create a quick-start template, and then edit in jEdit.
With the proper plugins installed, jEdit works really nice. My

problem

Post by Roger
is that I cannot get the new code back into Stylevision. At the

Altova

Post by Roger
website they try to present this as a feature, but of course it's

not.

Post by Roger
Do you know of any good wysiwyg editor for FO, and one that allows

you

Post by Roger
to edit or import the code? I don't expect Dreamweaver quality.
Other good tools are also welcome. XMLSpy works fine to create an
XSD, but I've seen a lot of tools out there, so I'm wondering what
your experiences are, what tips you have.
Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------

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For additional commands, e-mail: fop-user-***@xml.apache.org

[Chris Bowditch]

Post by Rob Stote
After some further offline discussion with Clay, I have decided to
expand on my reviews. I whipped off my previous email very quickly, and
in hind sight I realized, although useful, the reviews were lacking some
of the important information people may need. My forth coming reviews
will provide as much detail as you can all stomach ;-) O/S support, JDK
support, price, main features, main pitfalls etc.....
Look for my review(s) in the next couple of days.

Thanks Rob, it is appreciated. I forwarded your original mail around to some
of my colleagues, so we look forward to the indepth version :-)

Chris

[Roland Neilands]

Another one:
http://www.stylusstudio.com/xsl_fo_processing.html
Commercial IDE with built-in FOP support (not wysiwig).
When I trialled it (a while back now) it was similar standard to the others, ie good for some things, but I'm still using a text editor.

Regards,
Roland